Seven Questions: A Walk On The Dark Side

JORGE UZON/AFP/Getty ImagesMurder in the backyard: Hundreds of women have been killed south of the U.S. border in Ciudad Jurez, Mexicowith very little accountability.

FOREIGN POLICY: Whats new in Amnesty Internationals latest annual human rights report?

Joshua Rubenstein: Certainly, there are some trends that are very worrisome. You have a deteriorating human rights situation in countries like China, Zimbabwe, and Iran. This echoes previous years, but its complicated by the war on terror, where the vocabulary of the Bush administration is being adopted by other governments around the world. For example, in China, theres tension between the central government and this Uighur Muslim minority in Xinjiang [autonomous region]. Now were told that the Uighurs are terrorists, and the Chinese are carrying out repression there as if somehow the activity for greater autonomy of the Uighurs is connected to terrorism.

FP: Amnesty International has been criticized, particularly by conservatives, for losing perspective on human rights and holding the United States to an unfair standard. What do you say to that?

JR: We think we have the correct perspective. Our focus on how the United States is conducting the so-called war on terror has been confirmed by everything we continue to learn. Look at all weve learned from the scandal around Abu Ghraib. Look at how these people in Guantnamo continue to be detained without trial; the administration also makes noises about limiting their access to attorneys. And at the same time, hundreds of prisoners who were once detained at Guantnamo have been allowed to go home. A few years ago, Vice President [Dick] Cheney assured us that these were the worst of the worstthat theyre obviously connected to the Taliban or al Qaeda. Then why were detainees sent home to England, and within a day or two, sent home to their families?

As for the Bush administration, I think maybe it did learn a lesson from the Abu Ghraib scandal: Dont let soldiers have cameras.

FP: Lets talk more about China. Surely its treatment of the Uighur minority is not Chinas only human rights problem?

JR: Were all aware that China has many domestic human rights issuesthe torture of Falun Gong practitioners, the arrests of lawyers and journalists and Internet activistsbut we also need to play more attention to Chinas role in the world: Its role in Darfur where, along with Russia, it is the principal supplier of arms to the government of Sudan; its role in Africa generally, where it seems indifferent to human rights issues. China is just happy to be there and extract minerals and oil in the same way we used to see colonial regimes behave in the 19th century.

FP: Amnesty chose to hold a press conference in Moscow to release this report. Why Moscow?

JR: Its important to shine a spotlight on Russia and on the former Soviet Union. Keep in mind that after the Soviet Union collapsed, there were very substantial hopes that these countries would move in a more democratic and peaceful direction. But unfortunately, under Russian President Vladimir Putin, weve seen a severe retreat from democratic principles. Weve seen physical attacks on human rights defenders and journalists. All this has a big influence not only on Russian democracy, but on all of the former Soviet Union, on Central Asia, on Belarus. But Im not sure that the U.S. administration is willing to raise these issues with Russia and risk provoking a new Cold War, which no one wants.

FP: What parts of the world do you think are not getting enough attention in the media and in the international community?

JB: Look at the situation in central Africa and the Democratic Republic of the Congo. In the aftermath of the Rwandan genocide and the death of Mobutu [Sese Seko], weve had a complete breakdown of societyleading to millions of casualties that dwarf the number of casualties in Darfur. We also see a lot of violence directed against women in Guatemala, and it seems to be done with impunity. And in Mexico, where hundreds of women have been killed in Ciudad Jurez, a city south of the border with the United States, the investigations have been inadequate. There are many, many cases in Mexico of human rights defenders being threatened, journalists being threatened. Heres a country we like to think of as democratic, but really theres a good deal of old-fashioned repression going on in Mexico.

FP: Human rights activists often call for intervention to stop sectarian violence or ethnic cleansing. Now, tens of thousands of Iraqis are fleeing sectarian violence in Iraq each month. Should the United States stay in Iraq in order to tamp down the bloodshed?

JR: Let me first make clear that refugees are among the most vulnerable people in the world, whether theyre among the hundreds of thousands who have fled from Darfur or whether theyre people fleeing the violence in Iraq. They should have the right to seek political asylum in another country, perhaps in the region or elsewhere. But once you get into these very big numbers, it becomes problematic: Whos going to receive them? And that is a real challenge for the international community, not just the United States.

As for Iraq, this has turned into a very ill-advised war, but Amnesty is not a pacifist organization, and we do not take a position on military conflicts per se. In the months leading up to Iraq, we did say that it should be seen only as a last resort, and that the United States should be in consultation with the U.N. Security Council. In every wareven wars that people see as necessary and justifiedcivilians still get killed. We continue to be appalled at the violence carried out by the insurgents, which is directed indiscriminately at civilians in Iraq. And we have called for greater accountability when U.S. and coalition forces hurt or kill civilians.

FP: Your report is mostly a grim tour of the worlds worst places for human rights. Were there any positive developments in 2006?

JR: Well, yes. For example, in 2006, the situation in Nepal got much better: There are peace negotiations; the rebels have disarmed; theyre joining the government. At the International Criminal Court we see progress in terms of indictments: Theres been indictment of someone from the Lords Resistance Army in Uganda; we now see that the issue of Darfur has been referred to the International Criminal Court; and two to three Sudanese leaders have been named in an indictment for their activities in Darfur. Thats very important; it has more than just symbolic value.

But Amnestys job is not just to say when things are getting betterand were happy when they dobut really to give a kind of report card, especially in areas of the world where violence and repression continue. And thats where our report is very sober.

Joshua Rubenstein is northeast regional director for Amnesty International USA and author of several books on the Soviet Union.

For other timely interviews with leading world figures and expert analysts, visit FP’s complete Seven Questions Archive.